Person Page - 104

     Osbern de Crepon , Steward of Normandy was born circa 990 at Crepon, Calvados, Normandy, France. He was the son of Herfast (Arfastus) de Crepon. Osbern de Crepon , Steward of Normandy died in 1036; (murdered).¹

     Emma de Ivry was born circa 990 at Ivry-la-Bataille, Eure, Normandy, France. She was the daughter of Ralph (Raoul) Comte d' Ivry and Albreda (?). Emma de Ivry died before 1034.
     She I believe that the names which Turton gave Emma & her father Ralph d'Ivrywere wrong, but the pedigree which Turton gave is similar to that of CP,except that Turton has Emma's (Turton says Alberade's) mother asErneberge de Caux, while CP has her as Albreda. Raoul de Bayeux andRalph (Raoul) d'Ivry are probably two different names for the same person.

     Roger II 'The Spaniard' Conches de Toeni married an unknown person.¹ He was born circa 990 at Tosni, Louviers, Eure, Normandy, France.^1,2 He was the son of Ralph II Seigneur de Toeni , Lord of Conches and Miss Countess of Bayeux. Roger II 'The Spaniard' Conches de Toeni married Godheut (?) before 1025.^1,3 Roger II 'The Spaniard' Conches de Toeni died between 1038 and 1039 at In battle with neighbor against succession of William I.^1,2
     He Note: Roger Toeni's 1st wife, Stephanie, is questioned by some;especially her 2nd marriage to Garcias of Spain while Toeni was stillalive. I agree that it does not make much sense. However

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Roger de Toeni, also called Roger de Conches; fought Muslims in Spain;married 1st? Stephanie (m. 2nd Garsias, King of Spain) sister of RaymondBerenger, Count of Barcelona; married 2nd? Godeheut (m. 2nd Richard, 3rdCount of Evreux), and died 1038 or 1039 in battle against a neighboringnoble whose territory he had overrun in a revolt against the successionof William I the Conqueror to his father's Norman possessions on thegrounds that William was illegitimate. [Burke's Peerage]

Note: According to BP, Roger married two different women as 1st husband,both married later husbands. There is no explanation given. Did thefirst marriage end in divorce? As stated above, I am treating the womenas the same person.

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ROGER DE TOENI I, styled also DE CONCHES, son and heir, was born probablyabout 990, for as stated above he was joined with his father in thecustody of the castle of Tillières in 1013 or 1014. He was a powerful andhaughty man, and banner-bearer of all Normandy. In 1031 or 1032 heattested a charter of Robert I for St. Wandrille. About 1035 he foundedthe abbey of Chatillon or Conches. While Duke Robert was away onpilgrimage, he went to Spain and distinguished himself in fighting theinfidels (b). When he returned to Normandy, he was furious to learn thatthe boy William had succeeded his father in the Duchy, declaring that abastard ought not to rule over him and other Normans. Accordingly herebelled and ravaged the lands of his neighbours, particularly those ofHumphrey de Vieilles; whose son Roger de Beaumont marched against him,and in the battle which followed Roger de Toeni and two of his sons wereslain. He was a benefactor to the abbey of I'Estrée and confirmed a giftto the abbey of Lire, and witnessed a charter for Jumièges. He married,perhaps 2ndly,[g] Godeheut, whose parentage is unknown. He died as above,probably in 1038 or 1039, and was buried 1 May at Conches. His widowmarried Richard, 3rd COUNT OF EVREUX. She was a benefactor to Conches.[Complete Peerage XII/1:755-7, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

(b) Will. de Jumieges, p. 157---by Orderic. In consequence he was styledsometimes Roger of Spain (Orderic, vol i, p. 180; vol iii, p. 338), orRoger the Spaniard (Idem, vol ii, p. 64). However, if the Roger, son ofCount Rodulf (cf, p. 755, note 'a' above), who according to the SensChron. led an army from Normandy to Spain, can be identified with Rogerde Toeni, he is said to have gone there at a much earlier date; and afterdefeating the Saracens, is said to have married a Spanish woman and livedthere for 15 years. Then owing to the treachery of the natives he lostmost of his men and, leaving his wife in Spain, he returned to Normandy;where he made a concord with Duke Richard, who was displeased at the lossof his army. Afterwards Roger was killed, fighting against a certainneighbor (Rec. des Hist. de France, vol x, p. 223). This Roger's featsin Spain are recorded also by Ademar, who calls him simply Roger, anddoes not say how long he stayed there (Idem, p. 156). No other Normanthan Roger de Toeni seems to be known, who could be identified with thehero of these stories. Cf. Prentout, op. cit., p. 86. See also p. 755,note (a) above and note (g) below. See 'Tony of Belvoir', Charles Evans,'Geneal. Mag.', vol 15, 1968, pp. 616-18. [last sentence, referencingCharles Evans, added by CP XIV:613]

[g] Roger, son of Count Rodulf (see note 'b' above), married, in Spain,Stephanie, sister of Raymond Berenger; which lady afterwards m. Garsias,King of Spain (Rec. des Hist. de France, vol x, p. 223). This agrees withthe statement of Ademar, that he m. a da. (unnamed) of the widowedErmensede, Countess of Barcelona ((Idem, p. 156), the mother of Raymondabovenamed. If this Roger were Roger de Toeni, he married Godeheut whilehis 1st wife was alive, and Stephanie m. Garsias III, King of Navarre,while Roger was living.

Note: The note 'a', p. 755, referred to above is under Roger's father,Ralph.

     Ralph II Seigneur de Toeni , Lord of Conches was born before 970 at Tosni, Louviers, Eure, Normandy, France.^1,2 He was the son of Ralph I Seigneur de Toeni. Ralph II Seigneur de Toeni , Lord of Conches died after 1015 at Guerny, Eure, Normandy, France.^1,2
     He Ralph/Rodulf de Toeni; feudal Lord also of Conches; custodian with hisson of Castle of Tillieres from 1013 to 1014; took part in Normanexpedition to Southern Italy c1015. [Burke's Peerage]

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RALPH (or RODULF) DE TOENI II, son and heir, was born probably before970, for in 1013 or 1014 the Duke of Normandy, having founded the castleof Tilliéres, gave the custody of it to Ralph de Toeni and his son Roger,together with Neel, Vicomte of the Cotentin. Ralph was seigneur of Tosniand Conches. ) About 1015 he went to Apulia; and in the winter of 1015-16he was at the siege of Salerno (a). The name and parentage of his wifeare unknown, but it is possible that she belonged to a collateral branchof the ducal house; for according to Orderic, Ralph's son Roger descendedfrom an alleged uncle of Rolf, the founder of Normandy (b). The date ofRalph's death is not known. [Complete Peerage XII/1:754-5, (transcribedby Dave Utzinger)]

(a) 'Chron. Mon. Casinensis' (in one MS, only) in Mon. Germ. Hist., volix (vol vii Scriptorum), p. 652, note (a); F. Chalondon, La Dominationnormande en Italie, vol i, pp. 49, 52; cf. Douglas, op. cit. p. 30, note127. He may be the 'quidam Normannorum audacissimus, nomine Rodulfuls,'who (according to Rodulf Glaber), having displeased Duke Richard, went toRome to lay his cause before the Pope and was induced by him to got toBenevento to fight the Greeks; and after victorious campaigns returned toNormandy (Rec. des Hist. de France, vol x, pp. 25-26). According to theSens Chron., Count Rodulf, whose son Roger fought in Spain (see p. 756,note 'b' below), set out from Normandy for Jerusalem, but when he reachedApulia was asked by the local princeps to abandon his pilgrimage and stopto fight the Greeks, which he did ('Chron. S. Petri Vivi Senonensis,' inIdem, p. 223). These writers may refer to Ralph de Toeni, but theidentity cannot be proved.

(b) . . . de Stirpe Malahulcii, qui Rollonis patruus fuerat (Will. deJumieges, p. 157--interpoations by Orderic). An alternative reading is'de stirpe mala Hulcii' (Rec. des Hist. de France, vol xi, p. 38); whencehe is called 'Hulce' by the Vicomte du Motey, Origines de la Normandie,p. 55, note 4 and p. 173. Nothing is known of Rolf's alleged uncle undereither name. If he really existed, the alleged descent might be throughthe unknown wife of the elder Ralph.

     Ralph I Seigneur de Toeni was born circa 930 at Tosni, Louviers, Eure, Normandy, France.
     He As indicated by Burke's Peerage in notes for Hugh de Calvacamp, Ralphreceived Toeni from his elder brother Hugh, Archbishop of Rouen.

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RALPH (or RODULF) DE TOENI I, son of HUGH DE CALVACAMP, was given Tosniby his brother Hugh, and is described as a most powerful man, perhaps inconsequence of that gift. He is usually confused with his son Ralph, butthere is no authority for such identification, and the dates involvedshow that there must have been two Ralphs, belonging to successivegenerations. [Complete Peerage XII/1:754, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

     Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches was born between 1025 and 1030 at Conches, Eure, Normandy, France.^3,2 He was the son of Roger II 'The Spaniard' Conches de Toeni and Godheut (?). Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches married Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort, daughter of Simon I Seigneur de Montfort and Isabella de Broyes , Dame de Nogent, circa 1076 at Ile de France, France. Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches died between 24 March 1101 and 1102 at Flamstead, Hertfordshire, England.^3,2
     He Ralph [de Toeni], usually called Ralph de Conches; participated in Normaninvasion of England 1066; being accordingly granted lands in Berks,Essex, Glos, Herefs, Herts, Norfolk, and Worcs; married Elizabeth/Isabel,daughter of Simon de Montfort, Seigneur of Montfort l'Amaury, and died 24March, probably 1101/2. [Burke's Peerage]

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RALPH DE TOENI III, styled more usually DE CONCHES, son and heir, byGodeheut, was born probably about 1025-30. He was banner-bearer of theNormans. In 1050 he was at the Duke's Court. In 1054 he took part inWilliam's victory over the French at Mortemer and was sent by the Duke toalarm the King of France with the news. About 1060 Ralph, Hugh deGrandmesnil and Ernald d'Echauffour were deprived of their inheritance bythe Duke and banished. In revenge Ernald and Ralph made incursions intoNormandy and burnt the town of St. Evroul; but in 1063 they were recalledand their lands were restored. Ralph was one of the nobles summoned to acouncil when the Duke heard of the death of Edward the Confessor and thecoronation of Harold; and he took part in the invasion of England andfought at the Battle of Hastings. At some time between the battle and theDomesday survey in 1086 the Conqueror gave him estates in the counties ofBerks, Essex, Gloucester, Hereford, Herts, Norfolk and Worcester, withthe castle of Clifford, co. Hereford, which had been built on waste landby William FitzOsbern, 1st Earl of Hereford; but his caput baroniae wasat Flamstead, Herts. Before 30 November 1074 he assented to the Bishop ofBayeux's purchase of land from his tenant Herbert de Agnellis. About 1078he supported Robert Courtheuse against the King. Probably about 1080 hewent on a pilgrimage to Spain; and on his safe return, as he hadpromised, he made gifts to the abbey of St. Evroul, in recompense forhaving helped Ernald d'Echauffour to burn the town. In 1081 he was withthe King at Winchester. After William's death in 1087 he was one of theNorman nobles who expelled the royal garrisons from their castles. In1088 he served under Duke Robert in the war against Maine. His wifeIsabel having angered her sister-in-law Hawise, wife of her brotherWilliam, Count of Evreux, the Countess induced her husband to attackRalph. He appealed in vain to the Duke for help; he then sent envoys toWilliam Rufus, who ordered his adherents in Normandy to go to Ralph'said. In Nov. the Count of Evreux besieged Conches, but his forces weredefeated soon afterwards; and after 3 years of fighting peace wasconcluded. When Rufus and his brother made peace in 1091, the Dukegranted to the King all the land of Gerard de Gournay and Ralph deConches; after which Ralph remained one of the King's strongestsupporters. After the death of Rufus, Ralph and the Count of Evreuxinvaded the Count of Meulan's barony of Beaumont in Aug 1100, in revengefor his having prejudiced the late King against them. Ralph was abenefactor to the abbeys of St. Evroul, l'Estree, Conches,Croix-Saint-Leufroi, Lire, Jumieges, Bec, and St. Taurin, Evreux.

He m. Isabel or Elizabeth, daughter of Simon de Montfort, Seigneur ofMONTFORT L'AMAURY (France) (a), by his 1st wife, said to be Isabel,daughter of Hugh BARDOUL, SEIGNEUR OF BROZES. He died 24 March, probablyin 1101/2, and was buried at Conches. Isabel, after a long widowhood,repenting of the fatal wantonness to which she had been too much addictedin her youth, took the veil at the priory of Haute-Bruyère and livedpraiseworthily in the fear of the Lord. [Complete Peerage XII/1:758-60,(transcribed by Dave Utzinger & myself)]

at an unknown age Ralph obtained her as a reward for kidnapping by night hishalf-sister Agnes, daughter of Richard, Count of Evreux, and giving herin marriage to Simon.

     Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort was born circa 1058 at Montfort-l'Amaury Castle, Ile-de-France, France. She was the daughter of Simon I Seigneur de Montfort and Isabella de Broyes , Dame de Nogent. Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort married Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches, son of Roger II 'The Spaniard' Conches de Toeni and Godheut (?), circa 1076 at Ile de France, France. Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort died after 1102; as a nun.⁴
     She Elizabeth/Isabel, daughter of Simon de Montfort, Seigneur of Montfortl'Amaury. [Burke's Peerage]

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He [Ralph de Toeni] m. Isabel or Elizabeth, daughter of Simon deMontfort, Seigneur of MONTFORT L'AMAURY (France) (a), by his 1st wife,said to be Isabel, daughter of Hugh BARDOUL, SEIGNEUR OF BROZES. He died24 March, probably in 1101/2, and was buried at Conches. Isabel, after along widowhood, repenting of the fatal wantonness to which she had beentoo much addicted in her youth, took the veil at the priory ofHaute-Bruyère and lived praiseworthily in the fear of the Lord. [CompletePeerage XII/1:758-60, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger & myself)]

at an unknown age Ralph obtained her as a reward for kidnapping by night hishalf-sister Agnes, daughter of Richard, Count of Evreux, and giving herin marriage to Simon.

     Ralph IV de Toeni , de Conches, Lord Flamstead was born circa 1081 at Flamstead, Hertfordshire, England.¹ He was the son of Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches and Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort. Ralph IV de Toeni , de Conches, Lord Flamstead married Alice de Huntingdon, daughter of Waltheof Siwardson , Earl of Huntington and Judith of Lens, in 1103 at England.^1,4 Ralph IV de Toeni , de Conches, Lord Flamstead died circa 1126 at Conches, Eure, Normandy, France.^1,3
     He Ralph, called either de Toeni or de Conches; married 1103 Alice, youngerdaughter of Waltheof, Earl of Northumberland, Northampton and Huntingdon,and died c1126. [Burke's Peerage]

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RALPH DE TOENI IV, styled also DE CONCHES, 2nd but 1st surviving son andheir, assented with his mother and his elder brother, Roger, to hisfather's gifts to St. Evroul. He succeeded his father probably in 1102;and in 1103 he was one of the nobles who supported the claim of Rainaldde Grancei to succeed to the Barony of Breteuil on the death of Williamde Breteuil. In the same year he was a member of the alliance formed byRobert, Count of Meulan, to force Goel d'Ivri to release his burgher,John of Meulan. He then crossed to England and, being graciously receivedby the King, obtained his father's lands; and in 1104 he returned toNormandy with Henry, as one of his ardent supporters. He was in theKing's army in Normandy in 1106 and took part in the battle of Tinchebraion 28 September. In 1110 he was with the King at Romsey. When rebellionbroke out in Normandy in 1119, he remained faithful to Henry. About thesame time by the King's advice Ralph de Gael gave him Pont-St.-Pierre andthe whole valley of Pistres. In 1120 he was with Henry at Rouen. He was abenefactor to the abbeys of Bec and Conches, and perhaps to the priory ofWestacre.

He married, in 1103, in England, Alice, younger daughter and coheir ofWaltheof, EARL OF NORTHUMBERLAND, NORTHAMPTON and HUNTINGDON, by Judith(the King's cousin), daughter of Lambert, COUNT OF LENS. Alice inheritedWalthamstow, Essex. Ralph died about 1126 and was buried at Conches. Hiswidow gave the church of Walthamstow to Holy Trinity, London, for thesalvation of the souls of her son Hugh, who was buried there, and herhusband. [Complete Peerage XII/1:760-2, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

     Alice de Huntingdon was born circa 1077 at Huntington, Huntingdonshire, England. She was the daughter of Waltheof Siwardson , Earl of Huntington and Judith of Lens. Alice de Huntingdon married Ralph IV de Toeni , de Conches, Lord Flamstead, son of Ralph III de Toeni , de Conches and Elizabeth (Isabel) de Montfort, in 1103 at England.^1,3 Alice de Huntingdon died after 1126.^1,3
     She Alice, younger daughter of Waltheof, Earl of Northumberland, Northamptonand Huntingdon. [Burke's Peerage]

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He married, in 1103, in England, Alice, younger daughter and coheir ofWaltheof, EARL OF NORTHUMBERLAND, NORTHAMPTON and HUNTINGDON, by Judith(the King's cousin), daughter of Lambert, COUNT OF LENS. Alice inheritedWalthamstow, Essex. Ralph died about 1126 and was buried at Conches. Hiswidow gave the church of Walthamstow to Holy Trinity, London, for thesalvation of the souls of her son Hugh, who was buried there, and herhusband. [Complete Peerage XII/1:760-2, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

     Baudouin III Count of Hainault was born circa 1087 at Hainault, Belgium.³ He was the son of Baudouin II Count of Hainault and Ida de Louvain. Baudouin III Count of Hainault married Yolande von Wassenberg , of Guelders, daughter of Gerard III von Wassenberg , Count of Guelders and Clemence de Poitou, in 1107.^5,3 Baudouin III Count of Hainault died in 1120.^1,3,4

     Yolande von Wassenberg , of Guelders was born circa 1092 at Wassenberg, Lorraine now Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany.³ She was the daughter of Gerard III von Wassenberg , Count of Guelders and Clemence de Poitou. Yolande von Wassenberg , of Guelders married Baudouin III Count of Hainault, son of Baudouin II Count of Hainault and Ida de Louvain, in 1107.^5,6
     Yolande von Wassenberg , of Guelders Turton has Yolanthe as daughter of Gerard & Ermengarde of Zutphen. Ihave that Gerard as her brother, based on the birth date & ancestry givenin Leo's Data Base.

     Baudouin II Count of Hainault was born in 1056 at Hainault, Belgium. He was the son of Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders and Richilde Countess von Egisheim. Baudouin II Count of Hainault married Ida de Louvain, daughter of Henry II Count of Louvain and Adelaide (Adela) of Orlamunda, in 1084.¹ Baudouin II Count of Hainault died in 1099 at Holy Land.^1,3

     Ida de Louvain was born in 1063 at Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France. She was the daughter of Henry II Count of Louvain and Adelaide (Adela) of Orlamunda. Ida de Louvain married Baudouin II Count of Hainault, son of Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders and Richilde Countess von Egisheim, in 1084.¹ Ida de Louvain died in 1139.^1,3

     Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders was born in 1030 at Flanders.² He was the son of Baudouin V Count of Flanders and Adele (AdelaAelisAlais) Princess of France. Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders married Richilde Countess von Egisheim, daughter of Gerard I Count von Egisheim and Petronilla of Verdun, in 1051.^5,4 Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders died on 7 July 1070 at Abbey of Hasnon, Belgium.^6,4
     He The following is a post to SGM, 15 Jan 2004, by Peter Stewart, showingthat Baudouin had captured Hainault & Richilde's hand through an invasion(I have added an 'n' to 'FitzOsber' in the subject line, since I wasresponsible for the misspelling in the first place):

From: Peter Stewart (p_m_stewart AT msn.com)
Subject: Re: Richilde, wife of William FitzOsbern, Earl of Hereford
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2004-01-15 00:52:54 PST

My memory was right for a change - according to 'Annales Elnonenses'_ [in_Les annales de Saint-Pierre de Gand et de Saint-Amand_, edited by PhilipGrierson (Brussels, 1937)] under 1050 (actually 1051): 'Balduinus interimiunior, Adele filius, consensu patris accepta illicite uxore, castellumMonz obtinuit, post pasca. Nam eo anno in kalendis Aprilis pasca Dominifuit' (Meanwhile Balduin the younger, son of Adela, took an unlawfulbride with his father's consent, obtained the castle of Mons, afterEaster. In that year Easter fell on 31 March). NB in MGH SS V p 13 Pertzhad read 'illicite' as 'Iudita', and Richilde has been given Judith as asecond or alternative name by some historians; but Grierson with theadvantage of ultra-violet light was able to correct the word.

This statement of the Elnon annals is interesting for several reasons.First, the mention of obtaining Mons in the same sentence as the marriagepossibly accounts for the idea that Richilde may have been daughter ofRegnier, count of Mons, as in CP. However, annals kept at Lobbes andLiège appear to put a different spin on this see 'Annales Laubienses'and 'Annales Leodienses' edited by Gerog Heinrich Pertz in MGH SS IV p20, parallel texts under 1051, respectively: 'Balduinus cum filio suoBalduino rebellat, invaso Haino' and 'Balduinus cum Balduino filio suorebellat, invaso Monte C[astriloci' (Balduin rebelled with his son Balduin[the younger], by invading Hainaut/Mons). 'Annales Elmarenses' (edited byPhilip Grierson, op cit p 92) add, under 1052: 'Ricild, vidua Hermannicomitis, recepit in castrum Montensum Baldwinum iuvenem comitem'(Richilde, widow of Count Hermann, submitted to Count Balduin the youngerin Mons castle). There seems little reason to conclude that this was anymore than the place where they encountered each other & likely weremarried straight away, one of the strongholds of the county Richilde wasruling after her first husband's death.

Secondly, there is no mention in the local annals of any relationshipbetween Richilde and Pope Leo (Bruno of Egisheim), despite the very nextentry in 'Annales Elmarenses' recording his death. The counts of Flandershad made a practice of marrying well-connected ladies, and a niece of thereigning pope would surely have been an addition to their family prestigethat the local monks might have felt especially noteworthy. I'm inclinedto disagree on this point with Thierry, and think Pirenne was probablycloser to the mark about a stretched interpretation of 'avunculus' thanwas Vanderkindere in making this relationship immediate.

Peter Stewart

Note: The last paragraph involves the controversy over Richilde'sancestry. Thierry Stasser (and many other sources including CP & AR)have Richilde as a daughter of a brother/sister of Pope Leo IX (who wasborn Bruno Egisheim, son of Hugo/Hugh Count of Egisheim. However Pirenne(above) says the relationship with Leo IX came through Richilde's 1sthusband Herman's maternal grandmother, who was sister of Leo IX's mother;and that Richilde is descended from some other line. Richilde isreferred to as niece of Leo IX in several documents, but it is 'possible'that the relationship was less close & not even a blood relationship.

     Richilde Countess von Egisheim married an unknown person.⁷ She was buried at Abbey of Hasnon, Belgium. She was born circa 1030 at Eguisheim, Haute-Rhin, Alsace, France. She was the daughter of Gerard I Count von Egisheim and Petronilla of Verdun. Richilde Countess von Egisheim married Baudouin VI Count (I of Hainault) of Flanders, son of Baudouin V Count of Flanders and Adele (AdelaAelisAlais) Princess of France, in 1051.^4,6 Richilde Countess von Egisheim married William FitzOsbern , 1st Earl of Hereford, son of Osbern de Crepon , Steward of Normandy and Emma de Ivry, before 1071.^2,7 Richilde Countess von Egisheim died between 15 March 1086 and 1087 at Mechelen, Flemish Region, Belgium.^2,8,6
     She He [William FitzOsbern] married, 2ndly shortly before his death,Richilde, widow of Baldwin (VI), COUNT OF FLANDERS, and previously, as isstated, of Herman, COUNT OF HAINAULT, daughter and heir of the Count ofEgisheim [Alsace]. The Earl died as aforesaid in 1071, and was buried inthe Abbey of Cormeilles, which he had also founded. His widow appears tohave died 15 March 1086/7. She was buried with her 2nd husband in theAbbey of Hasnon, which they had founded. [Complete Peerage VI:447-9,XIV:380, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

Note: I am making her daughter of Gerard Count of Egisheim (as her nameimplies), but she could be daughter of any of Gerard's brothers orsisters. The only 'sure' thing is that she is niece of Pope Leo IX (andsome people think that the 'sure' thing is wrong).

Note that Turton has Richilde was daughter of Regnier V Count of Hainaultby Maud of Lorraine. This is a common mistake, but that ancestryactually belonged to Richilde's 1st husband who was Count of Hainault anddied without issue. Even though there were blood related heirs forHermann Count of Hainault, Richilde's 2nd husband forced/pressured thetitle to be given to her & to him as her 2nd husband. It was this'inheriting' of the title that led many early researchers to assume thatRichilde was the daughter and heir of the Count of Hainult.

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Below are three postings to SGM (Peter Stewart, Todd Farmerie, & ThierryStasser (the noted French genealogist, translated from French by ToddFarmerie)), in response to a query from myself, concerning the ancestryof Richilde (I apologized for misspelling 'FitzOsbern' in the subject):

From: Peter Stewart (p_m_stewart AT msn.com)
Subject: Re: Richilde, wife of William FitzOsber, Earl of Hereford
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2004-01-10 18:06:17 PST

jimweber AT nwintl.com (Jim Weber) wrote in messagenews:...
> Dear Newsgroup,
>
> Hope the new year is finding you well.
>
> CP VI:447-9 states that William FitzOsbern's 2nd wife was 'Richilde,
> widow of Baldwin (VI), Count of Flanders, and previously, as is
> stated, of Herman, Count of Hainault, da. and h. of Renier, Count of
> Mons, in Hainault.'
>
> This was changed by CP XIV:380 to read 'Richilde, widow of Baldwin
> (VI), COUNT OF FLANDERS, and previously, as is stated, of Herman,
> COUNT OF HAINAULT, daughter and heir of the Count of Egisheim
> [Alsace].'
>
> However I was just going through some of Leo van de Pas' data base at
> www.genealogics.org, and Leo, citing 'Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A.
> Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: II
> 5', has 'Richilde, Heiress of Hainault' as daughter and sole heir of
> Reginar V, Count of Hainault, by Matilde de Lorraine (AKA. Regnier V &
> Mathilde de Verdun per AR). This would imply that her first husband
> Herman Count of Hainault was count in right of his wife Richilde
> (Leo/ES gives no ancestry or other info on Herman). This also fits
> more closely with the original citation from CP (at least Mons is in
> Hainault and the names are similar).
>
> Does anyone know anything about these discrepancies?

The origin of Richilde has been debated for a long time & I'm not surethat any consensus has been reached yet.

Hermann is usually thought to have been count of Hainault in his ownright, as son of Count Reginar V (died ca 1039/40) by Mathilde of Verdun(usually said to have been daughter of Hermann, count of Verdun,explaining this given name).

He was apparently father of two children, both without issue, a son whobecame a bishop and a daughter who was a nun.

Richilde remarried in the early 1050s to Balduin VI of Flanders, and themain complication sets in because offspring of this union inheritedHainault, evidently through their mother and in preference to anyrelatives of Hermann.

This could be out-of-date: according to my notes from many years ago,when I last gave attention to it, the matter was exhaustively discussedby Walter Mohr in 'Richilde vom Hennegau und Robert der Friese: Thesen zueiner Neubewertung der Quellen' in _Revue belge de philologie etd'histoire_ 58 (1980) & 59 (1981). Many university libraries would holdthis journal.

I expect a good deal of ink has flowed on the subject since then too but,if so, happily it has by-passed me.

Peter Stewart

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From: Todd A. Farmerie (farmerie AT interfold.com)
Subject: Re: Richilde, wife of William FitzOsber, Earl of Hereford
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2004-01-10 19:13:10 PST

Jim Weber wrote:
> Does anyone know anything about these discrepancies?

Yes. ES has misled Leo. Richilde was widow of Herman, Count ofHainault, which Herman was son of Regnier. It was as widow of Herman(who d.s.p.) that she brought Hainault to her second husband, even thoughshe had no blood claim to it. I don't known where CP got the speculationthat she was daughter of a Count of Egisheim, but it is correct that whewas not daughter of the prior Counts of Hainault.

taf

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From: Todd A. Farmerie (farmerie AT interfold.com)
Subject: Re: Richilde, wife of William FitzOsber, Earl of Hereford
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2004-01-11 08:30:42 PST

Thierry Stasser wrote:
> sorry the answer is in French, but it is part of a paper on the Countsof
> Hainaut which is written in French , so it would take too long totranslate
> it in English

No problem - I will just summarize for the English-only crowd.

> Bien que certains chroniqueurs médiévaux fassent de Richilde, l¹épousedu
> comte Herman, la fille héritière de Régnier V et son époux Herman uncomte
> d¹origine germanique.(Chron. Albrici, pp. 785, 789, 792; Gillesd¹Orval, MGH
> SS XXV, p. 79),

While some medieval chroniclers make Richilde daughter of Regnier and herhusband Herman a germanic count . . .

> il est certain que Herman était l¹héritier de Régnier V
> (Gislebert de Mons, Chronicon Hanoniense, éd. L. Vanderkindere,Bruxelles,
> 1904, p. 3; Lambert de Hersfeld, Annales Hersfeldenses, MGH SRG 1894, p.
> 125).

it is clear that Herman was Regnier's heir.

> Une charte datée des années 1024/1039 mentionne en effet Régnier V et
> son fils Herman (Van Overstraeten, pp. 502-503).

A charter names Regnier and his son Herman.

> On ne connaît pas les
> origines familiales de la comtesse. On sait qu¹elle était la nièce dupape
> Léon IX (Flandria Generosa, MGH SS IX, p. 320: ...eiusdem Richildisavunculo
> ...) et qu¹elle était de sang impérial (Cont. Aquicinctina, p. 553:
> Richildem quae erat de sanguine imperiali ...).

As to Richilde, she was niece of Pope Leo IX, and of imperial blood.

> Le pape Léon IX était né Bruno d¹Eguisheim, fils du comte Hugues IV et
> d¹Helvide (Wibert, Vita Leonis, éd. I. M. Watterich, Pontificumromanorum
> vitae, t. 1er, Leipzig, 1862, p. 128).

Leo IX was born Bruno d'Eguisheim, son of Count Hugh IV and Helvide.

> On lui connait avec certitude deux
> frères, Gérard et Hugues (J. D. Schoepflin, Alsatia ... Diplomatica, t.1er,
> Mannheim, 1772, n° 207, p. 163), ainsi que plusieurs soeurs:

He has two know brothers, Gerard and Hugh, and sisters:

> Gerberge, abbesse de Nuys (L. Viellard, Documents et mémoires pourservir à
> l¹histoire du Territoire de Belfort, Besançon, 1884, p. 115);
> l¹épouse du comte Adalbert de Calw (Annalista Saxo,p. 687);
> peut être Hildegarde, mère de Louis de Mousson Montbéliard (F. Vollmer,Die
> Etichonen. Ein Beitrag zur Frage der Kontinuität früher Adelsfamilien,
> Studien und vorarbeiten zur geschichte des grossfrankische undfrühdeutschen
> Adels, éd. G. Tellenbach, Fribourg, 1957, p. 182; pour les sources voir
> Viellard, pp. 12-13; Schoepflin, n° 680, p. 477).

Gerberge, Abbess of Nuys; the wife of Adelbert de Calw; and Hildegarde,mother of Louis de Mousson-Montbeliard.

> Albert de Stade, Annales Stadenses, MGH SS XIV, p. 319, donne encore àLéon
> IX une autre soeur en la personne de Gertrude, femme de Liudolphe de
> Brunswick. Cette identification a cependant été mise en doute et onpenche
> plutôt à l¹identifier à la fille d¹un comte Egbert (H. Jakobs, Der Adelin
> der Klosterreform von St. Blasien, Cologne-Graz, 1968, p. 204; E.
> Hlawitschka, Untersuchungen zu den Thronwechseln der ersten Hälfte des11
> Jahrhunderts und zur Adelsgeschichte Süddeutschlands, Sigmaringen,1987, pp.
> 144-148; P. Corbet, L¹autel portatif de la comtesse Gertrude deBrunswick,
> Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale, 34, 1991, p. 103) .

Albert de Stade give another sister, Gertrude, daughter of Liudolf ofBrunswick, but this is doubtful, as she is identified as daughter of aCount Egbert.

> Compte tenu de l¹état de nos sources, il est impossible d¹attribuer la
> paternité ou la maternité de Richilde à un plutôt qu¹à un autre desfrères
> et soeurs de Léon IX.

With the sources available, there is no reason to favor one sibling overanother as parent of Richilde.

> H. Pirenne, Richilde, Biographie Nationale de
> Belgique, 19, 1907, col. 294, suggère d¹en faire une fille de Roger,frère
> d¹Arnoul de Valenciennes.

H. Pirenne suggested she was daughter of Roger, brother of Arnoul deValenciennes.

> Sur la comtesse Richilde, voir K. S. Nicholas,
> Countesses as Rulers in Flanders, Aristocratic Women in MedievalFrance, éd.
> T. Evergates, Philadelphia, 1999, pp. 115-117.

See this source for details on Richilde.

> Richilde se remaria à Baudouin VI de Flandre (= Baudouin I de Hainaut)en
> 1051 selon les Ann. Elnonenses, p. 156; Ann. Laubienses, p. 20; Ann.
> Leodienses, p. 20; Jacques de Guise , p. 188. Elle mourut en 1086 et fut
> inhumée dans l¹église de Hasnon (Jacques de Guise, p. 195).

She remarried Baldwin VI of Flanders (I of Hainaut) in 1051 and died1086, buried at Hasnon.

taf.

     Alberic II Count of Macon , & Salins was born circa 949 at Macon, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France. He married Ermentrude (Irmgard) de Roucy in 970.^1,2,3 Alberic II Count of Macon , & Salins died in 978 at Salins, Seine-et-Marne, Ile-de-France, France.¹

     Gersinde Countess de Bigorre was born circa 977 at Bigorre, Spain. She died before 1033.

     Hugo VI von Egisheim , Count of Lower Lorraine was born in 960 at Alsace, France. He married Heilwig (Helvide) von Dagsburg circa 987 at Dabo, Moselle, Lorraine, France. Hugo VI von Egisheim , Count of Lower Lorraine died before 1049 at Eguisheim, Haute-Rhin, Alsace, France.

     Heilwig (Helvide) von Dagsburg was born circa 972 at Dabo, Moselle, Lorraine, France. She married Hugo VI von Egisheim , Count of Lower Lorraine circa 987 at Dabo, Moselle, Lorraine, France. Heilwig (Helvide) von Dagsburg died in 1046.

     Baudouin II Comte de Boulogne married Adele of Holland.¹ Baudouin II Comte de Boulogne was born circa 976 at Boulogne-sur-Mer, Artois/Pas-de-Calais, France.² He died in 1033.^1,2
     He According to Todd A. Farmerie, Ernicule de Boulogne is not an alias forBaudouin, but represents an alternate ancestry for Eustace. Todd gavethe ancestry which I have for Baudouin. This differs from Turton, whohas Baudouin as son of Gui Comte de Boulogne, Gui as son of ErniculeComte de Boulogne (d. 972), and Ernicule as 2nd son of Guillaume I dePonthieu, who is in my files. Todd Farmerie says that Ernicule isdiminutive name for a young Arnoul/Arnulf, and probably refers to ArnulfII of Boulogne, or maybe Baudouin as the son of Arnulf II.

     Gerhard II Count of Metz was born circa 988 at Metz, Moselle, Lorraine, France.

     Gisella of Alsace was born circa 990 at Lorraine, France. She died in 1045.

     Hugh de Creil Comte de Clermont was born in 1030 at Clermont-en-Beauvais, Oise, Picardy, France. He was the son of Renaud de Creil Chamberlain of Clermont and Ermengardis of Clermont. Hugh de Creil Comte de Clermont married Margaret de Roucy, daughter of Hildouin IV Comte de Ramerupt & Montdidier and Alice (AlixAdela) Countess de Roucy, circa 1080.¹ Hugh de Creil Comte de Clermont died in 1101.¹
     He Hugues, COUNT OF CLERMONT in Beauvaisis, by Margaret, daughter ofHilduin, COUNT OF Rouci and MONTDIDIER. [Complete Peerage]

     Margaret de Roucy was born in 1045 at Montdidier, Somme, Picardy, France. She was the daughter of Hildouin IV Comte de Ramerupt & Montdidier and Alice (AlixAdela) Countess de Roucy. Margaret de Roucy married Hugh de Creil Comte de Clermont, son of Renaud de Creil Chamberlain of Clermont and Ermengardis of Clermont, circa 1080.¹ Margaret de Roucy died in 1110 at Clermont-en-Beauvais, Oise, Picardy, France.
     She Margaret, daughter of Hilduin, COUNT OF Rouci and MONTDIDIER. [CompletePeerage]

     Renaud de Creil Chamberlain of Clermont was born in 1010 at Creil, Oise, Picardy, France. He was the son of Hugh de Creil. Renaud de Creil Chamberlain of Clermont died in 1098 at Clermont-en-Beauvais, Oise, Picardy, France.

     Ermengardis of Clermont was born in 1010 at Clermont-en-Beauvais, Oise, Picardy, France. She was the daughter of Baudouin II Count of Clermont.

     Isabella de Broyes , Dame de Nogent was born circa 1034 at Broyes, Marne, Champagne, France. She was the daughter of Hugh Bardoul Seigneur de Broyes and Elizabeth de Sours. Isabella de Broyes , Dame de Nogent married Simon I Seigneur de Montfort, son of Amaury II Seigneur de Montfort and Bertrade (Berteis) de Gometz, circa 1055.^1,2 Isabella de Broyes , Dame de Nogent died after 1058 at Nogent-le-Roi, Eure-et-Loire, Beauce/Centre, France.
     She Simon married three times. His 1st wife is said to have been Isabel,daughter of Hugh Bardoul, Seigneur of Brozes, and dame de Nogent; thename of the 2nd wife is unknown, and there is no proved issue of the 2ndmarriage. By his 1st wife he had a son Amauri, who succeeded him, and adaughter Isabel or Elizabeth, who m. Ralph de Tosny. [Complete PeerageVII:Appendix D:710-1]

Note: See notes under father Hugh about Brozes .vs. Broyes.

     Hugh de Lacy was born in 1020 at Lassy, Calvados, Normandy, France. He died after 1066.²

     Emma (?) was born in 1025 at Normandy, France.

     (?) Concubine(s) married Richard I 'The Fearless' Duke of Normandy at No Marriage. (?) Concubine(s) was born in 935.